• Civilization franchise

    From esc@911:1719/0 to All on Friday, September 13, 2024 17:42:46
    Anyone else into the Civ games?

    I played Civ 1 on my PC way back in the day and was addicted. I loved making military victories and being an authoritarian razing all these innocent cities to the ground. What a blast.

    I didn't really get into Civ 2 as much, and I can't remember Civ 3 (maybe I played it?) but I really got back in with 4 and 5. Part 5 was so much fun and I occasionally fire it up now and play through it.

    I love these games because you can jump in at any time to a game in any sort of progress without having to remember certain aspects of it. It's almost like a sports game - just fire it up, play for an hour, put it down, pick it back up days later without skipping a beat.

    Part 6 is cool but I didn't care as much for certain aspects of building improvements on tiles and how you actually had to plan out where certain things were going to go. Part 5 ignored this and just let you put infinite "things" in/around a city. I dig that. :P

    Civ VII is coming out in 2025 I think. I'm pumped for that one.

    Some of the Civ addons are pretty cool, too. I like playing the real world geography with random initial settlement placement. As many other civilizations as possible. Long burn game. What a blast.

    Those goddamn barbarians piss me off when they exist during the space race part of the game. Like, come on, at some point there are just no more barbarians. Jesus.

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  • From jack phlash@911:1423/0 to esc on Friday, September 13, 2024 18:42:09
    on 13 Sep 2024, esc said...

    Anyone else into the Civ games?

    I played Civ 1 on my PC way back in the day and was addicted. I loved making military victories and being an authoritarian razing all these innocent cities to the ground. What a blast.

    I admit, the only one I've ever really played is Civ 1. I have no good excuse, as I think they're great and all of them have looked awesome over the years, just as the upcoming Civ VII looks rad now. Will I play it? Who knows. :/

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  • From dingo@911:1801/0 to esc on Saturday, September 14, 2024 15:00:06

    Twas Friday, September 13th when esc said...
    Anyone else into the Civ games?

    Less and less over time. I really hate how each release gets slower and more cartoonish each release. I call it the "HR-friendly" art style, like Meta's Metaverse.

    I like the art style of Heroes of Might and Magic 3. It is rich and perfectly balances dark and bright styles. I don't like feeling like I'm watching a nickelodean cartoon. Just hate it. Also looks like once again they are going hard on the graphics, the least important aspect of the game. I played Civ 1 on a restored Mac SE and I was surprised to see the time per turn was just as slow as Civ 6. They somehow manage to nerf the engine more each release to make it unbearably slow, and I think their mega-rich graphics are a big part of that. I suspect roughly 1/3 of the time of the game is spent waiting to be able to play!

    But I do like turn-based games for the reasons you describe. I can do them while doing chores or whatever, something I can pick up and drop without issue. It is nice to take your time if you want to.


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  • From jack phlash@911:1423/0 to dingo on Saturday, September 14, 2024 19:04:44
    on 14 Sep 2024, dingo said...

    Hey Dingo! I haven't seen you Zer0net in ages. Welcome back. There should be less trolls around these days... ;)

    Less and less over time. I really hate how each release gets slower and more cartoonish each release. I call it the "HR-friendly" art style,
    like Meta's Metaverse.

    You didn't directly say, so I'm curious what you think of Civ VII's art style. From the few preview images and videos I've seen, it looks a little more realistic than Civ VI and some of the previous games did, but it still looks fairly colorful.

    But I do like turn-based games for the reasons you describe. I can do
    them while doing chores or whatever, something I can pick up and drop without issue. It is nice to take your time if you want to.

    What are some of your other favorite turn-based games? I assume from the above comment you're a Heroes 3 fan. Anything else stick out as a recommendation?

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  • From esc@911:1719/0 to dingo on Saturday, September 14, 2024 21:45:15
    Less and less over time. I really hate how each release gets slower and more cartoonish each release. I call it the "HR-friendly" art style,
    like Meta's Metaverse.

    Yeah you really hit the nail on the head. I still think Civ 1 holds up well today, and playing it in an emulated DOS env with a lot of horsepower is a cool way to experience it.

    I like the art style of Heroes of Might and Magic 3. It is rich and perfectly balances dark and bright styles. I don't like feeling like I'm

    I never got into the HOMM games. I should give 'em a shot. Aren't there source ports for these games now?

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  • From esc@911:1719/0 to jack phlash on Saturday, September 14, 2024 21:46:06
    You didn't directly say, so I'm curious what you think of Civ VII's art style. From the few preview images and videos I've seen, it looks a
    little more realistic than Civ VI and some of the previous games did,
    but it still looks fairly colorful.

    There's a Civ subreddit that I follow and the cartoony shit is universally panned there. I suppose at the end of the day cartoons must be easier to generate than photorealistic stuff. *shrug*

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  • From dingo@911:1801/0 to jack phlash on Saturday, September 14, 2024 21:10:28

    On Saturday, September 14th jack phlash said...
    slower and more cartoonish each release. I call it the "HR-friendly" art style, like Meta's Metaverse.

    You didn't directly say, so I'm curious what you think of Civ VII's art style. From the few preview images and videos I've seen, it looks a little more realistic than Civ VI and some of the previous games did, but it still looks fairly colorful.

    It does look less cartoonish in the general game, but the leaders are still too "HR Friendly" in appearance for my tastes. And like I said, I'm afraid all the graphic details means that the latest generation consoles and computers will cause the game to run just as slowly as CIV 1 did in the 1980's! I appreciate the ability to take your time with turns when you want, but I find it terribly frustrating to wait 10-30 seconds between turns. Maybe that's the fault of playing on a Nintendo Switch rather than building a dedicated gaming PC. I'm mostly into retro computers anyway, theres plenty of great games from the last 40 years, no need to spend so much money on playing the latest ones!

    On Saturday, September 14th jack phlash was heard saying...
    What are some of your other favorite turn-based games? I assume from the

    Ohh, nethack, and lately I've been playing "Aerobiz" for sega/snes consoles I recently restored. I like it so much I'm thinking of doing a rewrite. It's ultra-nerdy but I'd like to have integrated spreadsheets. One should be able to sort routes by profitability, and write your own formulas for setting ticket prices and budgets, etc. It would be optional of course, for "advanced" players, but I have developed an appreciation for spreadsheets in my elderly years, I think I'd like to make a PC/steamdeck port, I've been learning godot but I don't like how much "programming" is done with GUI controls in the IDE, I like to have my code in writing, I might do it in C# with the monogame engine? Ahh well if only I had enough time to make all the games I'd like!

    Twas Saturday, September 14th when jack phlash said...
    Hey Dingo! I haven't seen you Zer0net in ages. Welcome back. There
    should be less trolls around these days... ;)

    Oh, I think I'm the troll, now :) lol


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  • From jack phlash@911:1423/0 to esc on Sunday, September 15, 2024 13:03:46
    on 14 Sep 2024, esc said...

    There's a Civ subreddit that I follow and the cartoony shit is
    universally panned there. I suppose at the end of the day cartoons must
    be easier to generate than photorealistic stuff. *shrug*

    Sure, but probably more importantly, highly stylized art tends to age far, far more gracefully than attempts at realism do. World of Warcraft's cartoony artwork still looks pretty decent (assuming you didn't hate it from the get go) 20 years later, for example.

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  • From jack phlash@911:1423/0 to dingo on Sunday, September 15, 2024 13:11:36
    on 14 Sep 2024, dingo said...

    It does look less cartoonish in the general game, but the leaders are still too "HR Friendly" in appearance for my tastes. And like I said,
    I'm afraid all the graphic details means that the latest generation consoles and computers will cause the game to run just as slowly as CIV
    1 did in the 1980's! I appreciate the ability to take your time with
    turns when you want, but I find it terribly frustrating to wait 10-30 seconds between turns. Maybe that's the fault of playing on a Nintendo Switch rather than building a dedicated gaming PC. I'm mostly into retro computers anyway, theres plenty of great games from the last 40 years,
    no need to spend so much money on playing the latest ones!

    I've figured for a while now that the increased graphical fidelity with every new version of Civ is more of an attempt to lure new players into the franchise than to impress people who are already hardcore fans. I think most hardcore 4x players couldn't care less - the GUI is a lot more an issue. To that end, I definitely get your frustration regarding delay between turns.

    Ohh, nethack, and lately I've been playing "Aerobiz" for sega/snes consoles I recently restored. I like it so much I'm thinking of doing a rewrite. It's ultra-nerdy but I'd like to have integrated spreadsheets. One should be able to sort routes by profitability, and write your own formulas for setting ticket prices and budgets, etc. It would be
    optional of course, for "advanced" players, but I have developed an appreciation for spreadsheets in my elderly years, I think I'd like to

    Wow, I'm not familiar with AeroBiz at all. It looks pretty interesting - vaguely similar to something like Railroad Tycoon or Transport Tycoon, perhaps? Googling around about it, it definitely seems to have a cult following, so there would be at least a niche audience for a remake, I'd think.

    make a PC/steamdeck port, I've been learning godot but I don't like how much "programming" is done with GUI controls in the IDE, I like to have
    my code in writing, I might do it in C# with the monogame engine? Ahh
    well if only I had enough time to make all the games I'd like!

    I yet to mess with GoDot, but I did play with GameMaker briefly long, long ago, and had a similar criticism. In most cases, it seemed like you could work around a lot of those GUI controls if you wanted to, but they really preferred that you didn't. I wouldn't be surprised if using the GUI is more enforced in
    newer versions, even.

    Oh, I think I'm the troll, now :) lol

    Banned! :P

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  • From esc@911:1719/0 to dingo on Sunday, September 15, 2024 18:46:38
    Switch rather than building a dedicated gaming PC. I'm mostly into retro computers anyway, theres plenty of great games from the last 40 years,
    no need to spend so much money on playing the latest ones!

    Same. Although I've spent a small fortune on retro tech so it doesn't really hold true for me.

    I've been really into tty roguelikes of late. In fact I've ported a ton to work on my BBS, I enjoy the shit out of them! I've even written some rudimentary ones myself but nothing worth actually playing. I still need to define what a decent game would be, instead of "here's a dude walking around some random map with a few monsters."

    Ohh, nethack, and lately I've been playing "Aerobiz" for sega/snes consoles I recently restored. I like it so much I'm thinking of doing a rewrite. It's ultra-nerdy but I'd like to have integrated spreadsheets. One should be able to sort routes by profitability, and write your own formulas for setting ticket prices and budgets, etc. It would be
    optional of course, for "advanced" players, but I have developed an appreciation for spreadsheets in my elderly years, I think I'd like to make a PC/steamdeck port, I've been learning godot but I don't like how much "programming" is done with GUI controls in the IDE, I like to have
    my code in writing, I might do it in C# with the monogame engine? Ahh
    well if only I had enough time to make all the games I'd like!

    I haven't heard of this one, I will have to give it a whirl.

    Make a text version of this that runs in the console so I can run it as a BBS door :P

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  • From esc@911:1719/0 to jack phlash on Sunday, September 15, 2024 18:49:01
    I've figured for a while now that the increased graphical fidelity with every new version of Civ is more of an attempt to lure new players into the franchise than to impress people who are already hardcore fans. I think most hardcore 4x players couldn't care less - the GUI is a lot
    more an issue. To that end, I definitely get your frustration regarding delay between turns.

    I suppose the answer, then, could be to just crank the graphical settings down to a tolerable but fast configuration.

    I have a MBP with an M3 chip. It runs pretty well here, so no real complaints. But I had a laptop that only had the integrated Intel GPU and it ran like molasses.

    Wow, I'm not familiar with AeroBiz at all. It looks pretty interesting - vaguely similar to something like Railroad Tycoon or Transport Tycoon, perhaps? Googling around about it, it definitely seems to have a cult following, so there would be at least a niche audience for a remake, I'd think.

    That's immediately what I did once I read him type that out lol.

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  • From dingo@911:1801/0 to esc on Monday, September 16, 2024 07:03:14

    Twas Sunday, September 15th when esc said...
    I've been really into tty roguelikes of late. In fact I've ported a ton to work on my BBS, I enjoy the shit out of them! I've even written some [..]
    Make a text version of this that runs in the console so I can run it as a BBS door :P

    Ahh I like making rougelikes as much as the next fella, but lately i've been making NES-quality graphics in terminal using the libchafa library, I probably shared it here before, https://www.jeffquast.com/post/u4_engine/

    they say everybody writes a MUD or a roguelike in college, or both, maybe you should be in school :)

    roguelikes are great because you don't have to focus on graphics, and the complex "algorithms" you might want, like line-of-sight or procedural level generation are all in reach. There isn't anything holding you back from developing complex gameplay with "emergent behavior". Adding 2D graphics to a game adds like 5x the work. 3D graphics is like 500x the work. You have to appreciate things like Minecraft that punted realistic graphics to focus on the gameplay.


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  • From dingo@911:1801/0 to esc on Monday, September 16, 2024 07:05:55

    On Sunday, September 15th esc said...
    Same. Although I've spent a small fortune on retro tech so it doesn't really hold true for me.

    According to inventory I've spent about $4k on retro hardware with lots of upgrades/mods, compare to a MSRP $15k base value at launch. So, compared against MSRP its not much money at all :) better to buy them much later at these reduced prices than to have bought them at launch and have hoarded them :)


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  • From esc@911:1719/0 to dingo on Monday, September 16, 2024 21:29:33
    Ahh I like making rougelikes as much as the next fella, but lately i've been making NES-quality graphics in terminal using the libchafa library,
    I probably shared it here before, https://www.jeffquast.com/post/u4_engine/

    You've got a lot of interesting content.

    they say everybody writes a MUD or a roguelike in college, or both,
    maybe you should be in school :)

    Touche ;) I'll let my prof know hehe

    roguelikes are great because you don't have to focus on graphics, and the complex "algorithms" you might want, like line-of-sight or procedural level generation are all in reach. There isn't anything holding you back from developing complex gameplay with "emergent behavior". Adding 2D graphics to a game adds like 5x the work. 3D graphics is like 500x the work. You have to appreciate things like Minecraft that punted realistic graphics to focus on the gameplay.

    It's funny, with a roguelike, you can take the basic premise/mechanics and do almost anything you can imagine in game design. For me, that's too broad a spectrum, and...I can't think of anything :P is this just senility?

    I loved me some Minecraft back in the day. I think I have a 1GHz G4 Mac which can run that game at pretty blazing speeds.

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  • From jinkusu@911:1423/0 to esc on Wednesday, September 18, 2024 00:47:18
    Ohh, nethack, and lately I've been playing "Aerobiz" for sega/snes

    Make a text version of this that runs in the console so I can run it as
    a BBS door :P

    at first i thought you meant a text version of a roguelike and i was like "aren't most of them?"

    aerobiz was a fun game though. i was kind of too dumb to play it properly as a kid, but i fumbled my way through kind of learning some tricks to keep the empire afloat.

    i fired it up semi-recently while dinking around with an analogue pocket and it was kind of interesting how the simple graphics are still passable

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  • From esc@911:1719/0 to jinkusu on Wednesday, September 18, 2024 21:59:25
    at first i thought you meant a text version of a roguelike and i was like "aren't most of them?"

    You'd think so! Not so much nowadays. A lot of them require, at a minimum, SDL...so I am on a neverending mission to uncover more roguelikes that can serve as BBS doors.

    aerobiz was a fun game though. i was kind of too dumb to play it
    properly as a kid, but i fumbled my way through kind of learning some tricks to keep the empire afloat.

    Nice. When I was a kid I hadn't even heard of it lol

    i fired it up semi-recently while dinking around with an analogue pocket and it was kind of interesting how the simple graphics are still passable

    Dude! I have one of these devices as well. I thought I'd use it a lot more but I find myself really digging my Switch and my 3DS. I was never a huge Nintendo fanboy back in the day but I dig these consoles.

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  • From jinkusu@911:1423/0 to esc on Tuesday, September 24, 2024 22:53:29
    You'd think so! Not so much nowadays. A lot of them require, at a
    minimum, SDL...so I am on a neverending mission to uncover more
    roguelikes that can serve as BBS doors.

    what do you have currently?

    maybe angband? i remember in college we had that in a communal space just running locally and it would record high scores.

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  • From esc@911:1719/0 to jinkusu on Tuesday, September 24, 2024 23:14:24
    what do you have currently?

    Ok, you asked for it! <cobbles together a list>

    (btw some of these may be random linux games or something so apologies if any of those sneak in here)

    Alphaman (running in dosemu but it's super cool)
    Vapors
    Avanor
    Tome-SX
    Tome 2
    Tome 3
    Furyband
    Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead
    Cataclysm 2
    Cataclysm Tish
    Edigotia
    Umoria
    Zangband
    Frogcomposband
    Unangband
    Poschengband
    Steamband
    Sil
    Sil-Q
    Frozen Depths
    Slash'em
    Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
    Stoat Soup
    Hellcrawl
    Bcrawl
    X-crawl
    Dwarf Fortress
    Shadow of the Wyrm
    Ancient Domains of Mystery
    Nethack
    Dynahack
    Splicehack
    Sporkhack
    Unnethack
    Trog
    Mutant Aliens
    Mutant Aristocrats
    KleinRL
    Encircled
    Axes, Armour and Ale
    BOSS
    Omega
    Hellband
    AliensRL
    DoomRL (my favorite!)
    DiabloRL
    Berserk
    Gearhead 1
    Gearhead 2
    Hydra
    Toby the Trapper
    Unstoppable
    Lambda
    The Slimy Lichmummy
    Tlox
    Psychadelic Journey
    In Cave Adventure
    Ivan
    ZeldaRL
    MetroidRL
    CastlevaniaRL
    Expedition
    DrashRL
    MegaManRL
    RulerRL
    TomeNET
    Zank
    Prime
    Unicorn
    CotC
    Comoserve
    Lithic River
    Abura Tan
    Ad Astra
    Cryptrover
    Mist
    Lagrogue
    Starlanes
    Pyrogue
    Scrap
    Tzar
    Fcrawl
    Dungeon Crawl (the original one)
    Dead Cold
    Last of Candle
    Kusemono
    PsttRL
    Plom
    Roguemare
    Hitmen
    Sewers
    Rouge
    Uwar
    Saladir
    Dragon's Nest
    MineRL
    Rogue Star
    Rook
    Dungeon Bash
    Endless
    Cutlass
    In the Dark

    I may have missed some <g>.

    maybe angband? i remember in college we had that in a communal space
    just running locally and it would record high scores.

    Yeah, that's a fun one. There are a ton of variants which are also a blast.

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  • From jinkusu@911:1423/0 to esc on Thursday, September 26, 2024 02:22:50
    what do you have currently?
    Ok, you asked for it! <cobbles together a list>

    haha, geez. how many of these have you played more than once? <g>

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  • From esc@911:1719/0 to jinkusu on Thursday, September 26, 2024 03:08:59
    haha, geez. how many of these have you played more than once? <g>

    Hard to say :P I definitely have my favorites.

    At some point I should whittle the list down, it's untenable in its current state. Plus not all games run perfectly, and not all games have some unique aspect that makes them fun.

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