If the Internet is turned off tomorrow, I will most likely only notice because I will not be able to download movies. I have everything else locally. I'll install a Dial UP modem, set up HotLine or some similar server and live as I always have. I have no social networks, no smartphones. For such a situation, I have a "judge day" computer in my basement on which thousands of useful sites, encyclopedias, and so on
are recorded. This is Pentium 200mmx. The truth is, I don't care. If DNS and Web2 disappear, civilization and nature will be cleansed. And films can be watched on DVD. But that's just my opinion.
If the Internet is turned off tomorrow, I will most likely only notice bec I will not be able to download movies. I have everything else locally. I'l install a Dial UP modem, set up HotLine or some similar server and live as always have. I have no social networks, no smartphones. For such a situati
have a "judge day" computer in my basement on which thousands of useful si encyclopedias, and so on are recorded. This is Pentium 200mmx. The truth i don't care. If DNS and Web2 disappear, civilization and nature will be cleansed. And films can be watched on DVD. But that's just my opinion.
How the Internet would be, after or during a major crisis like a WW3?
Nice! But why such a slow machine... Does it even play DVDs? Even my old netbook with 1GHz processor doesn't play well 480p videos.
Crazy subject. Let's hope we never have to legitimately worry about this in our lifetimes. :P
(Apologies if this post has a million typos. Not quite awake yet.)
Yep, and +1 to the whole post. Long, poetic, but highly on point.
Beside the fact that I find data hoarders useful under current (non-war orientated) circumstances.
The dynamics of the Internet and randomness of various data availability over time shows that the only reliable service to sustain certain interesting data sets are left on niche communities' and nerds'
shoulders :>
All good.. speaking about weather in peace time, how's Seattle today? :>
At the risk of propagating a semi-false stereotype... it's uh...
overcast and rainy today. :D
Personally, I think if the Internet becomes degraded to the point where many of the large sites/services people associate with the modern
Internet (social media, etc.) were unusable, the rest of the Internet would be *at least* incredibly hamstrung, if not neigh unusable. Between
First, I'm coming from a close to worst case scenario with these answers. is, a *major* calamity - a legit WWIII, an insanely deadly pandemic, an apocalyptic scale natural disaster or large meteorite strike, etc. Somethi with staggering loss of life and/or infrastructure.
they do today, but with a disaster this huge, it's unlikely anyone will ha the luxury of setting up a telnet BBS for fun or gaming in this scenario, it would be useful for communication and collaboration, and the requiremen to
discuss the weather with Jim Bob on the other side of town. Instead, I'd imagine communication hubs in communities where people could go to use the resources. Think telegram services.
their bug out bags, but it's highly unlikely there would be telephone syst for you to use dial-up technology with in these scenarios) is amateur radi given it's lack of reliance shared infrastructure. Again, power is an issu but radios and antennas are getting rare these days, so it's not that unbelievable to think a whole network of sporadically located nodes could on local renewal energies and/or generators for quite a while. And let's n forget that packet radio exists! Weeee!
Crazy subject. Let's hope we never have to legitimately worry about this i our lifetimes
:) I miss it. I won't make it this year, but I hope I'll be back in town next year. When I execute properly on that idea, I reserve myself a
right to ping you for a proper pint at one of the bars in the northern Post Alley, Kells preferable.
I don't want to brag, but I experienced the Internet shutdown in my state during the revolution.Not only the VPN, but also many SSL/HTTPs sites and services did not work for two days. Yes, most of the internet just disappeared. But I've never used it. I downloaded movies from torrents, read news through RSS feeds and essentially didn't notice anything. But the entire Web2 economy actually died at this time.In our question we
need to separate damage to physical communication networks and
commercial services. For example, IRC during the blocking worked as if nothing had happened. The same applied to Telnet/Gopher.
In such a case... if everything is lost and we are back to zero, perhaps technology and so the Internet, will be re-invented, as we experienced
it. But if there is some tech or even memories of how the web/internet
is today, it will start from that point forward.
If technology, thus the internet is not re-invented, i don't think that BBSes will be back, as they were in the 70s-90s.
I think that was the case in the past, with the BBSes. They started as a communication center and then extended to be more fun, with games and sharing files/warez. In a case of disaster, communication is everything first and someone could use any means to achieve it. Although, i don't think, that someone who never heard of BBSes, will even try to connect
to one.
The same thing appears in a scifi series, that's playing and called "Invasion". In the series, the army has created comm. hubs for people to use the internet and they pay, with whatever they have. Also the time is restricted... :)
HAM/packet radio exists, but it's an example that hard to learn technologies, specially for the young people, are almost unusable or obsolete. Perhaps in a WW3 scenario, some will forced to use them, but they have to all ready know and have the tech to do so. So it will be
very limited in use.
A mesh network, using existing wifi routers and smartphones, even if it wont have a big area to cover, it will be more friendly and usable to
the people of the present.
I fear that in a post-apocalyptic future, how friendly the software is, will be a big matter, cause younger people, don't have the experience we had.
hmmm... the idea for the subject came to me, because of what's happening in the middle east... which is not too far from me :(
I do think there is a compelling case for scraping together enough technology and expertise to build some kind of local or even regional networks in such a scenario, be they mesh or otherwise, providing that
Nice! But why such a slow machine... Does it even play DVDs? Even my netbook with 1GHz processor doesn't play well 480p videos.
I think back in the days I was watching VCD quality videos on my 300-500MHz Pentiums.. I think 20 years ago the whole movie scene was pirating maximum at 240p and that what YT was stuck at at the beginning too.
It depends on the scope/scale of the disaster. Humans have done a great job of filling the world with junk, so even after a major disaster I'd expect we could scrounge a huge amount of tech.
That's true. We continually do.. from the ancients. Yet, we can only dream know what the Great Library really had inside, and how many ancient texts already discovered stuff, we don't know, is lost due to fire that demolish.....
Scavenging ships picked up something that looks like mechanical computer f Greek or early Roman era.. and we still fucking don't know how it worked.. Asian Mythologists or Historians (sometimes hard to distinguish) say that Chinese were sailing Pacific 5000 years ago with ships bigger than USS
This is part of the ideology of the leftist-globalist, they purposefully cancel recent history with the goal of finally monopolizing the means of
You had to go there eh? This was such a fun discussion / thought experiment up until this point.<cut>
I'd look to Ukraine right now or Gaza for a situation as close to the apocalypse as possible, expand it to a global scale, to get a glimpse at the technological path that awaits us in the event of this doomsday scenario.
You will be surprised. But people in poor countries spend their last money on food, but on a cheap Chinese smartphone or an expensive Samsung. All th poor illegal migrants I meet here have very expensive smartphones and smartwatches. The logic of things tells us one thing, but the irrational
smartwatches. The logic of things tells us one thing, but the irrational behavior of people proves something completely different.Again, peoples wh
I'd look to Ukraine right now or Gaza for a situation as close to the apocalypse as possible, expand it to a global scale, to get a glimpse at t technological path that awaits us in the event of this doomsday scenario.
If you "eliminate" that, they don't have anything, so they should go
back to technologies like HAM radios... i think :)
Not completely irrational... i understand why they do it, at least at
some level. a) they want to feel good and not poor b) they want to blend with the other locals c) having a smartphone in a social environment
that still works (i mean it's not in total chaos or breakdown) gives you opportunities to work and have jobs d) they can communicate with their family and even show them that they doing great.
So.. back to the Armageddon, I believe as long as people know how to
wire up cables and there are networking devices, wide area networks
could be recreated.. most likely with a heavily limited bandwidth.. so mostly for communication just like ARPANET had at the beginning, no 4K movies and video calls as a first priority, unless fiber was saved or continually produced.
In Ukraine and Gaza, people have Internet and are "connected", because there is not a complete break down of communications and/or the
internet. In Ukraine, in some places they rely on Starlink to communicate...
If you "eliminate" that, they don't have anything, so they should go
back to technologies like HAM radios... i think :)
The day the internet dies, he who downloaded and saved the most porn is king.
It seems to me that you play computer games a lot and don't visit factories and enterprises much. For example, electricity will not disappear anywhere because you can always wind the generator coil
yourself and put magnetized elements there. It is also easy to make a capacitor or resistor at home. Yes, it will be larger than a serial
the excess pressure release valve. You need a high-quality monometer.
You throw wood, the fire heats the water, the steam pressure makes the mechanism work, the mechanism rotates the generator. The price of such a set is pennies.
That kind of knowledge has
been lost for the vast majority of the developed world to make room for more advanced activities and topics
We have a chat, we use the IP address to log in. The domain may be taken away or arrested along with the owner. We have to do such nonsense.
i think i mentioned this elsewhere but at that time i was downloading Southpark episodes from IRC once a week in realmedia format.. and they were like .. 50mb? absolutely watchable, but not in a very enjoyable
sort of way.
starts getting into the real old memory, but i remember also having machines that couldn't play mp3s and do much else at the same time..
That's true. We continually do.. from the ancients. Yet, we can only
dream to know what the Great Library really had inside, and how many ancient texts with already discovered stuff, we don't know, is lost due
to fire that demolished the place.
Scavenging ships picked up something that looks like mechanical computer from Greek or early Roman era.. and we still fucking don't know how it worked...
Asian Mythologists or Historians (sometimes hard to distinguish) say that Chinese were sailing Pacific 5000 years ago with ships bigger than USS Enterprise (the carrier, not the Star Trek thing).. and Chinese now are trying to catch up with marine skills of the beginning of XX century
after all...
This is part of the ideology of the leftist-globalist, they purposefully
Not completely irrational... i understand why they do it, at least at
some level. a) they want to feel good and not poor b) they want to blend with the other locals c) having a smartphone in a social environment
that still works (i mean it's not in total chaos or breakdown) gives you opportunities to work and have jobs d) they can communicate with their family and even show them that they doing great.
I completely understand your point of view. But I don't have social media profiles, I don't have a credit card. I pay for everything in cash. And
I don't suffer much. I have been conducting this real-time experiment on myself since 2014.And I really find it very difficult to understand people's dependence on the gig-economy of smartphones, because markets, including wholesale markets, still exist, stores accept cash, you can
even send a fax from a post office. Perhaps it all depends on the worldview, and not on the presence or absence of DNS, as such.
I think convenience is a huge thing for most people in modern society,
but I also find it surprising just how hard people fall for popular trends. We've all probably seen it 10s if not 100s of times in our
lives, but one of the bigger examples I can think of (and as an added bonus, is also pertinent to this topic) was when the Internet started getting popular in this country. I distinctly remember advertisements on TV and the radio suddenly posting web addresses, even though almost no
one used the Internet. I thought "why are they wasting time on that? weird..." and next thing you know, it seemed like every one *had* to
have a PC and an ISP account.
This is an interesting question. For 50k people by 200 kwt per day, this will be 10 million kilowatts per day. On average, you need 4 generators that will produce 2.5 million kilowatts per day. The most difficult
That kind of knowledge has
been lost for the vast majority of the developed world to make room f more advanced activities and topics
By advanced activities do you mean scrolling Instagram whole day :)
debating, but not some kind of near extinction level event. Your
concerns remind me of some science fiction I loved as a kid which
involved people in a rebuilt society sort of rediscovering artifacts of what is to them, an ancient civilization. Truly post-apocalyptic kind of
Funny that we're debating cobbling together communication networks after
a disaster, and we're now criticizing poor people for buying
smartphones. For some of those people, the justifications for
prioritizing phones during their own personal disasters might be very
I completely understand your point of view. But I don't have social media profiles, I don't have a credit card. I pay for everything in cash. And
I don't suffer much. I have been conducting this real-time experiment on myself since 2014.And I really find it very difficult to understand people's dependence on the gig-economy of smartphones, because markets, including wholesale markets, still exist, stores accept cash, you can
even send a fax from a post office. Perhaps it all depends on the worldview, and not on the presence or absence of DNS, as such.
This is all about media. tech is tech. that's how you'd most likely like to look at it. A perk of its own value system and it was 20-30 years ago still, more or less. but now it's just a tool for media to interactively distribute content to engage you.. more than TV ever could.
I'm reading a fantastic series right now called The Long Sun series by Gene Wolfe and what I love about it is that there are 100's of years between the time when people know how to use, repair and make the tech
to the present day and what it actually is and how it works, even though it's still in people's lives has been totally lost with some of the tech taking on a religious meaning with AI's being worshiped as God's even while they try to explain to the people that they are not.
All I wanted to say is that we will need coal. It has a large heat capacity, which allows insane thousands of pounds to be converted into hundreds of tons. Many cities still get their electricity from coal plants. It is a good and normal environmentally friendly decision to
burn coal instead of nuclear energy.
This is part of the ideology of the leftist-globalist, they purposefully cancel recent history with the goal of finally monopolizing the means of communication. The experience of the last 30 years shows that so far
they have succeeded. How else can we explain that technically nothing
Prior to USA president Biden's election in 2020, there was video footage circulating on Youtube where Biden said to a white audience "I don't
want my kids to go to school in a racial jungle." The original footage
can no longer be found anywhere, and people who remember seeing it (like me) look like liars when we try to remind people about it.
Erasing something from media is the exact same thing as erasing it from the memory of the weak minded. If the media were to suddenly stop reporting on the Israel war, then the weak minded would forget all about the atrocities.
What you're claiming has been erased has in fact not been erased. You
can read about it on Business Insider, USA Today, ABC News, PolitiFact.
The false equivalency of the media no longer reporting on the Israel war fails because Joe Biden is not walking around all day talking about
racial jungles. He made that gaffe one time and that was it. What are
you suggesting, there should be daily news reports about what he said
one time in 1977?
Everything is very simple. To look for anything, you must know what to look for. If you don't know what you need, you will never find what you need. This is the meaning of "cancellation". It is impossible to find information about this BBS if you do not know about BBS, Telnet and FTN. Especially if you look for it in the echo chamber of gaslighting.
Logically, this leads to a false dichatomy. For example, which is safer than Telegram or Signal? Further, where did the idea come from that, for example, the BBS paradigm is outdated? From what fundamental principles
of human consciousness did this idea come? You say that a similar phenomenon has existed at all times. But as the globalists stated when creating their dystopia, we were supposed to find ourselves in a world where all information is available. And where social media will turn out to be platforms for civil journalism and freedom with democracy. I remember it all perfectly. The very technology of "cancelling" knowledge and history was precisely created in order to engage in social
engineering of society using technological theories of conditioned reflexes. One leftist newspeak that they promote in all films, games, social networks speaks volumes. Are you saying that this did not affect society? Now I'll ask a simple question. Who is these people to "cancel" something? What is their right to manipulate society based on?
In that same conversation where he said this he also said that he thought integration would be better served and more effective if suburban
housing costs were lowered.
What you're claiming has been erased has in fact not been erased. You
can read about it on Business Insider, USA Today, ABC News, PolitiFact.
racial jungles. He made that gaffe one time and that was it. What are
you suggesting, there should be daily news reports about what he said
one time in 1977?
In that same conversation where he said this he also said that he tho integration would be better served and more effective if suburban housing costs were lowered.
That's the adorable part that the media wants us to remember the most vividly.
What you're claiming has been erased has in fact not been erased. You can read about it on Business Insider, USA Today, ABC News, PolitiFac
Right, we can read about it, but I want people to see the video, and
it's gone.
There are more relevant clues for people to pick up on now days, like Joe's effort to change the racial demographic throughout the USA with the unprecedented migrant surge. He didn't like colored people back in the 70s, but he loves the shit out of em now, because he's a team player,
and he thinks that they'll vote Democrat.
As far as canceling, nobody owes anybody a platform. That's all there is to it, plain and simple. Nobody is trying to manipulate anything. If I make a website and you post content on it that I don't want on my
website, I remove it and/or ban you. And frankly, a lot of these
decisions by social media companies are fueled more by capitalism than
any ideals. They're trying to appease shareholders and avoid mass exodus of advertisers like you see on Twitter right now, thanks to Elon's stupidity.
I agree with you - until a platform becomes so large that its an infrastructure... I'd say publically traded, but thats only one metric.
When you have a facebook, insta, tiktok, twitter, etc its wrong to
shadow ban or otherwise just hide and/or kill data from the community. I mean people like to talk about voting interference that Russian, or
other, accounts posts DISinformation - I think the removal/shadow
banning of data was a lot worse and is much more of an interference...
I'm not sure I 100% agree. I'd re-frame it though - I think the *purposeful* spread of disinformation (and/or suppression of the
"truth", two sides of the same coin) is more dangerous no matter what
the end goal is, than the ignorant spread of disinformation without any sort of goal. I mean, the latter has always been a part of human society
- myths, wives' tales, urban legend, etc. I'm not saying there's not
even any danger there, bullshit is bullshit, but if a foreign power is actively trying to manipulate another country's election for their own ends, or trying to sow social discontent to try to bring down or cripple
a country, I think that's pretty fucking serious, and as an organized effort, much more likely to have an impact, far more so than a private company blocking something your racist uncle Rick's post that goes
against their terms and conditions.
We're smart enough to sniff out the BS.
We're smart enough to sniff out the BS.
WE are but a lot of folks are not ;) Anyway the main reason they do any
of this is to make money. It's far less altruistic than you'd think. My
SO is one of the people that works on exactly this at a big social media company.
I understand - TBH, while I did prefer the RESULT of the last presidency
I think it will be the worst thing for America if they get another 4 years. That being said, for big tech to bury actual issues and stories during an election was BS IMO...
I think that BOTH are dangerous - misinformation by outside parties and hiding/banning information that doesn't align with a platforms beliefs or politics... we could go down the rabbit-hole - I also think changing voting a month before an election is BS, but I also understand [and
want] all *American's* votes to be heard; I guess its just a let down
that technology, in 2023, is hurting society as a whole - when it has
the power to allow people to see, find and learn ACTUAL truths...
I wish there was a way to use the technology that we have for good - for all. Its powerful enough - how the hell are ALL of us so blind to not
see that no matter who we support, in the current system, that we're
still gonna be divided... We need to come together.
At any rate, this discussion can't be had w/o getting political - and I think *ANY* democrat/republican candidate that's in the entire realm of possibilities will be horrible for America. We need a complete freaking reboot [not in a Civil War way!] - I sure wish Biden would have stepped aside [for 2024] a year ago and paved the way for actual change that
could have been voted in. I fear that we're gonna get a Trump 2024, and he's gonna come in hot like no one knows.
Yeah, I'm trying to talk around it being too on-the-nose political for
the sanity of all involved, but ultimately the US liberals and conservatives and the loosely aligning two parties *do* tend to have different takes on these subjects, so it's kind of hard to avoid
entirely. One thing is for sure, the 2024 election is going to be a
roller coaster ride. I agree that the entire system needs to be
reformed, but it's hard to imagine that happening in our lifetimes - too many people vested in the current way things work, too many people
making huge profits, careers, and able to manipulate the system for them to let even a vast majority of voters push any major changes, IMO.
I really wish Biden would have announced, a year ago, that he wasn't running in 2024 - so that Democrats could have come up with a slam dunk that would have had a better chance to defeat the Republicans - and
again, I lean right; I just haven't drank the kool-aid and I think a
Trump 2024-2028 won't look pretty.
Guess you should have saved it? If your contention is that the video doesn't exist due to some nefarious plot to hide this information, take
it up with all the various reporting about it that quotes him. *shrug*.
First off, it's people of color. Second off, people of color are not
part of the migrant surge, you're conflating different things. Third
off, if your claim is that Biden is trying to change the racial demographic, that's a lot of conjecture.
You're right about that, too much conjecture. But simple math is saying that 20 million new voters, who walked 1000 to 2000 miles to get here, are not going to vote for the party that didn't want them here.
Democrats are smart creatures, and they are well organized. They calculate everything, and if we don't calculate everything too, we're letting people get away with stuff that they shouldn't be.
that 20 million new voters, who walked 1000 to 2000 miles to get here are not going to vote for the party that didn't want them here.
Many latino voters vote republican, probably due to poor education,
which alins with well, republican voters in general. So there is that.
Of course, many simple don't at all, either. So either way, ... wut?
From one dumb conspiracy to the next. Democrats aren't getting these people to move here, they do it because they are fleeing, and legally -- via our very own laws - should be getting asylum as such.
And which "stuff" would that be, exactly?
You're right about that, too much conjecture. But simple math is saying that 20 million new voters, who walked 1000 to 2000 miles to get here,
are not going to vote for the party that didn't want them here.
You're right about that, too much conjecture. But simple math is sayi that 20 million new voters, who walked 1000 to 2000 miles to get here are not going to vote for the party that didn't want them here.
While on the surface that logic seems fine, it's the numbers that I'm curious about. First, let's first pretend that illegal immigrants can vote. They can't, but if this really was a conspiracy, then you could imagine a scenario where these immigrants where voting laws were relaxed and/or these immigrants were able to become citizens in masse. Okay.
While on the surface that logic seems fine, it's the numbers that I'm curious about. First, let's first pretend that illegal immigrants can vote. They can't, but if this really was a conspiracy, then you could imagine a scenario where these immigrants where voting laws were relaxed and/or these immigrants were able to become citizens in masse. Okay.
And its not ALL illegal aliens, but what about those getaways who are being considered for asylum? Some say that they will have the power to vote... time will tell, but these are some of the reasons I don't
support a [mass]mail-in open voting scenario.
I think if the number is 1 ['illegal'/undocumented voter] its too
much... and can't they? Thats the reason I support ID voting - doesn't have to be that 'realID' thing, but.. cmon man - you have to show yer a citizen to doso.
And its not ALL illegal aliens, but what about those getaways who are being considered for asylum? Some say that they will have the power to vote... time will tell, but these are some of the reasons I don't
support a [mass]mail-in open voting scenario.
Sure, one may be too one too many, but the whole point of my reply was that it wouldn't change the election results per Metalhead's conspiracy theory. And no, they shouldn't be able to.
When you talk about mail-in voting you seem to think that ballots aren't jp> verified or authenticated in any way - they're just counted if its a jp> legitimate ballot.
If you're being considered for asylum, you're an illegal immigrant. If you're granted asylum, you're a legal immigrant, and as I understand it, you're a citizen and can vote providing you register to vote and meet
all of those federal and state requirements. I don't think (?!) there's any in-between when it comes to being able to vote. But to be fair, I already brushed by this issue in my first paragraph - I said I could imagine a scenario where voting laws were relaxed and/or immigrants were able to become citizens in masse. Certainly the latter thing has been discussed a lot in the last 10 years or more by some Democrats. Those actions could favor making such a theory a bit more realistic.
But the (got I hate this next word) far-left wants them to be able to... and they're already providing information to the asylum get-aways on HOW to doso...
LOL - they're not verified or authentic because with mail-in cards to every registered voter in the mail, thru mail, we have no freaking idea who put that check mark on the card...
I agree, if paulie420 raises his hand - shows ID - and requests a
mail-in; fine.... but to mass mail ALL people - cmon dude, how can you
say without smiling that that won't be taken advantage of???
The new "hot thing to be mad about" will drop any time now and we won't hear any more about illegal immigrants voting. We'll forget all about
it. And so it goes.
They'll only forget about it for another 4 year since it seems like an easy thing to keep stirring up people's fears over regardless of what other hot issues are being whored out by media that year. *shrug*
Far left and right want a lot of silly shit. That doesn't mean it'll ever happen. I think we tend to blow more extreme statements/opinions from our politicians out of proportion these days because 1. some of these people are the loudest and 2. in something of a feedback loop, they're often
the loudest because media loves to give them the most attention because controversy gets clicks/ratings/whatever. Meanwhile, even in the era of MAGAs and *shudder* female, minority vice presidents, most of our politicians are pretty fucking boring and would prefer to keep things relatively status quo in order to keep their own interests stable.
There are ways to authenticate a mail-in ballot. Ours are actually validated in a few different ways.
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